Gigadino
MemberCompsognathusNov-08-2014 7:14 PMI'm back, and since there have been a lot of new things during last months, I think it's time to update my top 10 largest Theropods list. You may find some big surprises:
#1. Tyrannosaurus rex
Everybody's favourite meat eater. Called "the absolute wardlord of the Earth" by New York Times in 1905, it's the most famous dinosaur in this list. This guy is pretty big: the largest specimen in called FMHN PR2081, or "Sue", and it's the largest good Theropod specimen: it was around to 3.5 meters tall, with a lenght of 12.3 m. This guy wasn't the longest meat-eaters but, due to its massive built, it was likely among the heaviest. Estimates for "Sue" range from as little as 5.6 t to over 9.5 t. Hartman recently proposed a lower estimate, wich puts this animal at over 8 t. It can beat any other Theropods in my list in terms of weight and since this ranking is about the largest (=heaviest), it earned the first place.
#2, #3, #4: Mapusaurus rosae, Giganotosaurus carolinii, Carcharodontosaurus saharicus
The three largest Carcharodontosaurids are very similar in size, so they share a common place.
Mapusaurus is often thought to be just 10-11 m long. Actually, that's just a myth. Coria & Curria, Mapusaurus's describers, mentioned some specimens comparable in size with Giganotosaurus carolinii's holotype. There is also a specimen wich is 110 % the size of Giganotosaurus carolinii's holotype. That's just a piubic shaft, so we cannot give a precise estimate for this animal. If it was really 110 % the size of G.carolinii's holotype, it was 13.6 m long, but as this is a fragmentary specimen, we don't know if it really was that large. A wiser 12-13 m range is better for large Mapusaurus specimens. A weight range similar to that of Giganotosaurus is also feasible.
One of the well know guys is Giganotosaurus carolinii. This south american Carcharodontosaurid was discovered back in 1993, and it was one of the largest Theropods. The first specimen is a uncomplete skeleton (around to 50-70 % complete), wich is longer than "Sue" (at 12.2-12.4 m), but lighter (at 6-7 t). A second specimen has been discovered. It's a piece of dental, and it's estimated to be 6.5 % larger than the first specimen. If it was really that big, it was 13.2 m long, but again this specimen is very fragmentary, and precise estimates aren't safe. A 12-13 m range for this specimen is pretty good. Weight estimates ranges from 5 to 14 t, but something like 7-8 t is supported by most of the paleontologist.
Carcharodontosaurus saharicus is the most fragmentary of the three. It's been discovered back in 1927, but only recently we realized how big it really was. Its size strongly depends on its proportions: if it was small-headed, like Acrocanthosaurus, well, the largest speimen, SMG-din 1, would have been a huge behemot, at almost 14 meters long. However, a such build is pretty unlikely, as Acrocanthosaurus is a less derivated Carcharodontosaurid. The much closer Giganotosaurus is a big-headed Theropod, so a big-headed build is likely for Carcharodontosaurus saharicus, too. If it was big headed, it would end up between 12 and 13 meters. Again, 12-13 m is the best range for a such fragmentary beast. A weight similar to that of other giant Carcharodontosaurids is likely.
#5: Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Once regarded as the biggest Theropod, something changed during last months. In fact, Ibrahim et. al proposed a new recostruction based on new materials. This time, the animal was much closer to the ground than before, and it had a much less deep chest, thus the animal would be lighter. There is no official estimate for the new recostruction, but Andrea Cau mentioned a 6-7 t figure, wich would fit perfectly for a such gracile animal. Spinosaurus aegyptiacus still holds the record as longest Theropod though, at 12-15 meters long.
#6: Tyrannotitan chubuitensis
This guy may not be that well know among the public, but it would definitely deserve to: it's got an epic name, rivalling Tyrannosaurus rex itself. Joking aside, Cau called it "the Cinderella of Giant Theropods", because it's often forgotten, when it's the largest Theropod know from good specimens along with T.rex. Its lenght was estimated at 12.2 m, and that's the only estimate I found. There's even a 13 meters one by GSP, but seems to be based on a 13 m Giganotosaurs holotype, wich is doubtfull. The largest specimen is around as big as Giganotosaurus holotype - so, between 6 and 7 t - making it one of the largest Theropod.
#7: Deinocheirus mirificus
This guy is a new entry. Once an unsolved puzzle, today the most depicted dinosaur on Deviant Art. Only recently we realized how much strange (and big) it was; we've new materials, wich includes two new very good preserved skeletons. This animal was in the 6-6.5 t range, according to new estimates based on new specimens, so it was almost as big as Spinosaurus. Its lenght is measured at 11 m long, thus it was pretty long as well. It may hold the record as the tallest Theropod, at over 4 meters tall.
#8: Acrocanthosaurus atokensis
This guy is easily recognizable due to its muscolar ridge on its back. Even though it isn't always mentioned, it's earned its place here, as it's one of the largest Theropod, as well as apex predator of its ecosystem. The largest specimen is called "Fran", and it's indeed pretty big; it's measured to reach 11,5 meters long over the curves. Weight estimates rage between 5 and 6 t, even though Mazzetta proposed a higher weight of 7 t. Cau said that this Theropod was much more gracile than Tyrannosaurus rex, so a 5-6 t range can be good.
#9: Therizinosaurus cheloniformis
This guy isn't mentioned everywhere, but it should. It's the most massively built Theropod, even more than Tyrannosaurus rex, thus it was among the heaviest. This guy is the only herbivore in my ranking, but it was a Theropod, so I included it. I've found a lot of estimates for this animal, but a 10 meters estiamte for lenght appears to be good. This animal could have weighted around to 5 t. It may have been the tallest Theropod, only rivalled by Deinocheirus.
#10: Suchomimus tenerensis
You weren't expecting to find it here, were you? Actually, even though it's often forgotten, it definitely deserves to be there. Suchomimus's type specimen is a sub adult, yet it's very big: it was originally estimated at 11 meters, but GSP later gave a 9.5 m estimate. However, hartman recently made a skeletal of this specimen, wich is 12 meters long. And it even wasn't an adult. Weight estimates rage from 4 to over 5 tonnes, thus a 4-5 t range can be good.
Lord Vader
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-12-2014 5:34 PMCan take years for things to change.
Jack of all trades. Master of none
Raptor-401
MemberAllosaurusNov-12-2014 5:44 PMAre you implying it takes years for a Wikipedia article to change!!??
IT'S TIME TO DU-DU-DU-DU-DUEL!!!
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-12-2014 5:45 PMDepends on who's running it. And technically, it does mention the 2014 specimen/model.
Lord Vader
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-12-2014 5:45 PMDepends on when the general public learns about the new finds.
Jack of all trades. Master of none
Spinosaurus Rex
MemberCompsognathusNov-12-2014 5:45 PMOn top of the fact you just said it gets changed numerously? Ha, walked yourself into that.
Raptor-401
MemberAllosaurusNov-12-2014 5:46 PMYeah, What S-Rex said... You contradicted yourself right there, to be honest...
IT'S TIME TO DU-DU-DU-DU-DUEL!!!
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-12-2014 5:47 PMSpecify who you're talking to please so we know who needs to respond.
Personally, I said many things in general take a while to change. Wikipedia can be changed by anyone and, while it doesn't go into great detail about it, the 2014 model/specimen is mentioned.
Raptor-401
MemberAllosaurusNov-12-2014 5:49 PMI was talking to Mr. Happy. How I see it, Spinosaurs was the biggest theropod, but hey, that's just me.
IT'S TIME TO DU-DU-DU-DU-DUEL!!!
Lord Vader
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-12-2014 5:50 PMI simply said that anyone can change anything in Wikipedia. For the most part, it's random people. The general public. Once this is discovered by the general public, there will be changes to it.
Jack of all trades. Master of none
Raptor-401
MemberAllosaurusNov-12-2014 5:50 PMActually, Wikipedia sets it so only certain peopel can edit. If they see you are unreliable to edit articles, they IP block you.
IT'S TIME TO DU-DU-DU-DU-DUEL!!!
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusNov-12-2014 5:51 PMThat's fine Raptor. Think what you want.
Everyone, I'm not saying this to get anyone mad. But, I think we've beaten this topic to death. It was a good debate(no insults thrown or anything). But I think it is time to slow down a bit, move on you know? Sound good? I enjoyed this debate overall. Pretty good in light of recent things and such :)
Lord Vader
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-12-2014 5:52 PMI agree with Rex Fan.
Jack of all trades. Master of none
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-12-2014 6:31 PMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
Lord Vader
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-12-2014 6:36 PMWell, there are some people who seem to think otherwise.
Jack of all trades. Master of none
Raptor-401
MemberAllosaurusNov-12-2014 6:40 PMAw, Carnosaur, as always, very good and valid points!!!
IT'S TIME TO DU-DU-DU-DU-DUEL!!!
Something Real
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-12-2014 10:51 PMThe honest and most striking fact is that Spinosaurus Aegyptiacus was an ancient super predator that likely weighed within the range of seven to ten tons and was almost certainly the top killer of its era. Regardless if it reigned over land or water, this creature was, from what I've been able to deduce from various articles and reports, a nightmare to anything it encountered. With regards to my personal feelings on the matter, I honestly feel that Spinosaurus was a magnificent example of our world's ability to create astounding works of biology - a true and resoundingly stupendous being the likes of which our planet will likely never again see. That animal, along with everything from its era, is lost in time. Yet it continues to live on within our imaginations - and there it can be so many different things for each of us. We each see this great animal as we want - honor it with our speculations and excitment; and in so doing, we breathe life into it! Nothing is more fantastic than bringing a life-form back from the dark of extinction through the use of imagination - regardless of how we see it in our mind's eye.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-13-2014 8:22 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
Tyrant king
MemberCompsognathusNov-13-2014 1:15 PMWhat I don't like is that you guys immediately jump to conclusions about spinosaurus. What I mean is that as soon as the new spino model came out everyone here except for a select few(including myself) strongly disagreed. The old spino model was never truly excepted and it ghastly been around since 1915. But this one comes along and everyone jumps on the quadruped spino bandwagon even though there's no true evidence. Yes 40% of the skeleton was found and yes 20% was added but really some of that was from suchomimus. Why would you take bones if one animal and put it into another animal and think that its accurate just cause they are closely related. You also have to put in to consideration that 40 to 50% isn't found, that is a lot. I am not arguing.
Gigadino
MemberCompsognathusNov-13-2014 2:48 PMI realised I missed Chilantaisaurus. It was roughly to 11~12 m long, with a mass estimated to be between 2 and 6 t. I'll add it soon.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-13-2014 5:06 PMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
Something Real
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-13-2014 7:12 PMCARNOSAUR - You know, I've never actually heard of Chilantaisaurus? If you don't mind me asking, to what family of Theropods did it belong and what did it look like? It sounds interesting! :)
Gigadino
MemberCompsognathusNov-14-2014 4:53 AMChilantaisaurus was an enigmatic Theropod. It's thought to be a Neovenatorid.
Carnosaur, I scaled from Neovenator. I got ~ 5 t. So I guess 4~5 t is a good size range.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-14-2014 7:58 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-14-2014 1:34 PMDamn, why there are still people keeping with their 11 tonnes estimate for Spinosaurus since the authors of the publication THEMSELVES reject this, and have estimated Spinosaurus at 6-7 tonnes using digital model ?
People are really unable to perform a slight research and display humility rather than always playing the ultimate experts ?
Found one paleo-authority who at now agrees on a 11 tons Spino. You'll search for a while...
Something Real
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-14-2014 3:04 PMCARNOSAUR - Thank you ever so much! That information is exactly what I was looking for! :)
GIGADINO - Excellent! Out of curiosity, why do you call the animal enigmatic? :)
Tyrant king
MemberCompsognathusNov-14-2014 3:31 PMActually there is no true evidence to say it was 6 to 7 tons and if you could show some evidence to, that would be great. And I say it was about 10 tons on average.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-14-2014 7:14 PMfor Spinosaurus since the authors of the publication THEMSELVES reject this, and have estimated Spinosaurus at 6-7 tonnes using digital model
Hey Kom, do us a favor and post this? ibrahim et. al never stated a weight reduction, nor does hartman. If you have some info none of are known to possess, i'd love to see it.
Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-14-2014 9:19 PMIbrahim said that Spinosaurus was no heavier than Tyrannosaurus.
Ibrahim weighed in, emailing to say, “Weight estimates are very tricky. Spino is longer, but more elongate and slender overall, so weight probably quite similar” to T. rex.
Andrea Cau (one of the world foremost theropod research expert) through a personnal communication with Simone Maganuco, one of the authors, know that they estimated it at 6-7 tons. Indeed that's at best no heavier than Tyrannosaurus.
Tom Holtz agreed through a discussion regarding the publication that Spino was lighter than the largest carcharodontosaurids and tyrannosaurids. He even posted sarcastically and anecdotically that T. rex would have won (on land) against Spino.
But you know what, I'll reach Ibrahim and I'll perform a screenshot of the mail. Prepare to cry.
Something Real
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-14-2014 11:37 PMKOM - The information you've provided is quite interesting. I greatly enjoy the depths to which you've gone to support your claims. However, please - I implore you - don't completely discount the theories of others. Stating that something is absolutely not possible with regards to an extinct life form about which we know so very little undercuts the scientific process of hypothesis. We should share our views and collaborate in thought provoking discourse, not attempt to one-up each other and show absolute preclusion of one-another's theories.
Regardless, I greatly look forward to seeing the reply from Ibrahim! That should be quite compelling! :)