Gigadino
MemberCompsognathusNov-08-2014 7:14 PMI'm back, and since there have been a lot of new things during last months, I think it's time to update my top 10 largest Theropods list. You may find some big surprises:
#1. Tyrannosaurus rex
Everybody's favourite meat eater. Called "the absolute wardlord of the Earth" by New York Times in 1905, it's the most famous dinosaur in this list. This guy is pretty big: the largest specimen in called FMHN PR2081, or "Sue", and it's the largest good Theropod specimen: it was around to 3.5 meters tall, with a lenght of 12.3 m. This guy wasn't the longest meat-eaters but, due to its massive built, it was likely among the heaviest. Estimates for "Sue" range from as little as 5.6 t to over 9.5 t. Hartman recently proposed a lower estimate, wich puts this animal at over 8 t. It can beat any other Theropods in my list in terms of weight and since this ranking is about the largest (=heaviest), it earned the first place.
#2, #3, #4: Mapusaurus rosae, Giganotosaurus carolinii, Carcharodontosaurus saharicus
The three largest Carcharodontosaurids are very similar in size, so they share a common place.
Mapusaurus is often thought to be just 10-11 m long. Actually, that's just a myth. Coria & Curria, Mapusaurus's describers, mentioned some specimens comparable in size with Giganotosaurus carolinii's holotype. There is also a specimen wich is 110 % the size of Giganotosaurus carolinii's holotype. That's just a piubic shaft, so we cannot give a precise estimate for this animal. If it was really 110 % the size of G.carolinii's holotype, it was 13.6 m long, but as this is a fragmentary specimen, we don't know if it really was that large. A wiser 12-13 m range is better for large Mapusaurus specimens. A weight range similar to that of Giganotosaurus is also feasible.
One of the well know guys is Giganotosaurus carolinii. This south american Carcharodontosaurid was discovered back in 1993, and it was one of the largest Theropods. The first specimen is a uncomplete skeleton (around to 50-70 % complete), wich is longer than "Sue" (at 12.2-12.4 m), but lighter (at 6-7 t). A second specimen has been discovered. It's a piece of dental, and it's estimated to be 6.5 % larger than the first specimen. If it was really that big, it was 13.2 m long, but again this specimen is very fragmentary, and precise estimates aren't safe. A 12-13 m range for this specimen is pretty good. Weight estimates ranges from 5 to 14 t, but something like 7-8 t is supported by most of the paleontologist.
Carcharodontosaurus saharicus is the most fragmentary of the three. It's been discovered back in 1927, but only recently we realized how big it really was. Its size strongly depends on its proportions: if it was small-headed, like Acrocanthosaurus, well, the largest speimen, SMG-din 1, would have been a huge behemot, at almost 14 meters long. However, a such build is pretty unlikely, as Acrocanthosaurus is a less derivated Carcharodontosaurid. The much closer Giganotosaurus is a big-headed Theropod, so a big-headed build is likely for Carcharodontosaurus saharicus, too. If it was big headed, it would end up between 12 and 13 meters. Again, 12-13 m is the best range for a such fragmentary beast. A weight similar to that of other giant Carcharodontosaurids is likely.
#5: Spinosaurus aegyptiacus
Once regarded as the biggest Theropod, something changed during last months. In fact, Ibrahim et. al proposed a new recostruction based on new materials. This time, the animal was much closer to the ground than before, and it had a much less deep chest, thus the animal would be lighter. There is no official estimate for the new recostruction, but Andrea Cau mentioned a 6-7 t figure, wich would fit perfectly for a such gracile animal. Spinosaurus aegyptiacus still holds the record as longest Theropod though, at 12-15 meters long.
#6: Tyrannotitan chubuitensis
This guy may not be that well know among the public, but it would definitely deserve to: it's got an epic name, rivalling Tyrannosaurus rex itself. Joking aside, Cau called it "the Cinderella of Giant Theropods", because it's often forgotten, when it's the largest Theropod know from good specimens along with T.rex. Its lenght was estimated at 12.2 m, and that's the only estimate I found. There's even a 13 meters one by GSP, but seems to be based on a 13 m Giganotosaurs holotype, wich is doubtfull. The largest specimen is around as big as Giganotosaurus holotype - so, between 6 and 7 t - making it one of the largest Theropod.
#7: Deinocheirus mirificus
This guy is a new entry. Once an unsolved puzzle, today the most depicted dinosaur on Deviant Art. Only recently we realized how much strange (and big) it was; we've new materials, wich includes two new very good preserved skeletons. This animal was in the 6-6.5 t range, according to new estimates based on new specimens, so it was almost as big as Spinosaurus. Its lenght is measured at 11 m long, thus it was pretty long as well. It may hold the record as the tallest Theropod, at over 4 meters tall.
#8: Acrocanthosaurus atokensis
This guy is easily recognizable due to its muscolar ridge on its back. Even though it isn't always mentioned, it's earned its place here, as it's one of the largest Theropod, as well as apex predator of its ecosystem. The largest specimen is called "Fran", and it's indeed pretty big; it's measured to reach 11,5 meters long over the curves. Weight estimates rage between 5 and 6 t, even though Mazzetta proposed a higher weight of 7 t. Cau said that this Theropod was much more gracile than Tyrannosaurus rex, so a 5-6 t range can be good.
#9: Therizinosaurus cheloniformis
This guy isn't mentioned everywhere, but it should. It's the most massively built Theropod, even more than Tyrannosaurus rex, thus it was among the heaviest. This guy is the only herbivore in my ranking, but it was a Theropod, so I included it. I've found a lot of estimates for this animal, but a 10 meters estiamte for lenght appears to be good. This animal could have weighted around to 5 t. It may have been the tallest Theropod, only rivalled by Deinocheirus.
#10: Suchomimus tenerensis
You weren't expecting to find it here, were you? Actually, even though it's often forgotten, it definitely deserves to be there. Suchomimus's type specimen is a sub adult, yet it's very big: it was originally estimated at 11 meters, but GSP later gave a 9.5 m estimate. However, hartman recently made a skeletal of this specimen, wich is 12 meters long. And it even wasn't an adult. Weight estimates rage from 4 to over 5 tonnes, thus a 4-5 t range can be good.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 2:55 AMI've got a response from Maganuco just this morning through FB :
thanks for your message! I can say that the body mass estimate for the reconstructed adult Spinosaurus is between 6 and 7 tons. It was written and discussed in the first version of the manuscript, but not included in the very trimmed final version. It will be included in the next more detailed papers. Have a nice weekend, Simone
Just confirming what I report.
That was already said on Andrea Cau's blog, that's sad that I have to contact one of the authors of the study.
This puts Spinosaurus third on the list of the heaviest theropods.
Gigadino
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 3:40 AMThank you, Kom. That confirms what I wrote in the OP.
Chilantaisaurus is enigmatic because, besides the fact it's fragmentary, it often changed its family.
Something Real
MemberTyrannosaurus RexNov-15-2014 4:14 AMKOM - Very interesting! Thank you very much for sharing this with us! It's extremely neat that you received a reply! :)
GIGADINO - I see - how very neat! Thank you ever so much for clarifying that bit of information for me; it helps substantially with a gap in my knowledge! :)
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 9:28 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 10:03 AMThe evidence ? The manuscript they wrote for the first version of the paper, and the fact they're going to publish it. You're really not honest there. Damn, I ask to the authors and the guy is still arguing... Unless "carnosaur from jurassicworldnews" suggests that Andrea Cau and Simone Maganuco are idiotic douchebags and liars ?
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 10:08 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 10:16 AMHuu man, I don't have the manuscript, this is Ibrahim et al. property and I'm not gonna ask them, especially if they use it for a new paper as said by Maganuco.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 10:44 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
Spinosaurus Rex
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 10:54 AMWhere the hell do you get the notion that we are supposed to believe you actually talked to this guy, let alone even having his email address? It seems youve came here to cause trouble and call people out, so i suggest you stop what your doing or suffer the consequences.
Spinosaurus Rex
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 10:57 AMAny fool can type out a paragraph and put it in italics, which would be very foolish.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:15 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:24 AMCarnosaur, you genius, I don't take Chicago tribune as evidence, but the quote from Nizar Ibrahim as evidence. Wake up.
They've not published the early manuscript and they'll use it in another paper about Spinosaurus.
Spinosaurus rex, genius, are you aware of Facebook ? I've precised that I had contacted him through FB. Can you at least properly read my messages ?
You need a screenshot of the conversation maybe ? Incredible, just incredible...
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:28 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:33 AMInsults ? No, sarcasm. I deeply dislike to have my honesty and objectivity put in question in that way.
How do I post a pic on this forum, i've tried in the other thread and it doesn't work.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:35 AMDoes it work ?
http://www.zupimages.net/viewer.php?id=14/46/lu9r.png
*Links fixed by Svanya.
Lord of the Spinosaurs
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:36 AMGuys, lets not get agressive here, ok?
There is no such thing as a pure predator. A meat-eater is eit
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:39 AMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
Lord of the Spinosaurs
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 11:52 AMI'm just going to stay out of this before it gets any worse for me...
There is no such thing as a pure predator. A meat-eater is eit
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 12:02 PMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 12:06 PMHe doesn't give reasoning and ?
This is discussed in the manuscript which will be used in a further paper. You think he's going to give a extended explanation about a not yet published study to some random guy on Facebook ? Seriously man...
If you have FB, you contact the guys, and done, you're clarified.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 12:10 PMNature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 12:13 PMWell I can ask specifically in a short question why there was such a downsizing, hoping he does not respond "I can't share as of now the content of the future detailled study".
But I can ask him. And you know, if you have FB, you can ask him too.
I've read your examples and I'm unconvinced, the new shape of Spinosaurus really implies a shrunk weight estimate compared to the older, large legged, more massively chested reconstructions.
Tyrant king
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 12:49 PMInstead of yapping about how you talk to those paleontologists you show us all evidence. I don't believe you cause all 50 of your posts are based around how you talked to this guy. you should say what he actually said to you, that is if you even talk to him. And post a paragraph of what we says and make it so we know you talk to him and not just randomly found his post and put it on here.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 1:16 PMThere's nothing special about talking to paleontologists, I've never expressed any pride from that.
I just see that you don't want to do it, maybe because you fear what they might say when they respond to you?
My 50 posts are about that because the guys I'm talking to just don't want to believe me, because they don't want Spinosaurus to be downsized or more likely they don't want their opinion appear to be flawed.
Like if that was incredible that someone can contact a paleontologist. I've posted the response and even the screenshots and you still keep doubting ?
You just don't want to see the truth that's all.
One question, how old are you guys ?
Spinosaurus Rex
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 1:24 PMIm 20 son, and if i recall, i dont think we asked you to show yourself in anyway, you're kinda just going overboard, we just asked for a simple screenshot, which i guess you did, but the guy just states his opinion instead of going into depth on why he thinks the way he does. Im not afraid to contact him and/or get rude with him if necessary. I'm not afraid to say what i need to, which is the exact reason why i told you to cool it. We are talking about a new recontructed animal that hasnt been proven to be the correct image of it, so i suggest you drop the bias act.
Tyrant king
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 1:27 PMYour beating around the bush instead if just showing us evidence. The thing about the three if us( carnosaur, spino rex, me) are persistent as hell if you haven't already noticed. Aresale we ask is for pics or some form of evidence.
kom
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 1:42 PMTyrant King, seriously ? I showed you the data from the guy, I don't have the paper at hand, it's not still published. Is that so difficult to understand ?
Spinosarus Rex, I'm older than you. Son.
Normally a simple copy of my discussion was enough, on other board, no one asks and harass for a screenshot of a communication. Then I've posted the screenshot but some now are asking for the entire conversation as screenshot.
The guy states his opinion because he certainly has other works to do than to give a lengthy responses on FB to a random guy and to share not yet published discussions, maybe still under discuss at now. You don't know how scientific domain works or what ?
Well contact him, get rude with him ? Ahah, you're going to harass the guy if he doesn't give the responses you'd like maybe ? You believe professionnal paleontologists owe you something maybe ? There's a really strange mentality on that board...
A new reconstructed animal with the latest revision, and I'm certainly giving more credits to Ibrahim's team than to "Carnosaur", "Tyrant King" or "Spinosaurus Rex".
Tyrant king
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 1:57 PMWell Ibrahims team dosent have and evidence tk back up the new reconstruction.
pic of your dick? Really, is that appropriate?
And j an sorry for the fact that we want evidence.
if you don't gave the paper then why did you bring it up?
really insulting? That is a sign if weakness.
Spinosaurus Rex
MemberCompsognathusNov-15-2014 2:09 PMIf the guy decides to downgrade my educated opinions and theories, i will not hesitate to give the same back. And did you really... need to bring that into this? If there is something ive learned in my lifetime, age does not always reflect on maturity, as i am seeing with you. I said nothing about anybody owing me anything, in fact its more about people needing to owe this animal for many always downgrading it and expecting people to accept it as the truth, when we still have little remains of it.
Ah, turning my words back on me lol, how "mature" of you. You seem to enjoy expessing your maturity.
