Megalodon vs Pliosaurus Macromerus

nice fight, a bit short though... i almost predicted it because of the age of the megalodon, but i like these underwater battle of yours

Elite Raptor 007: The shortness of the fight is actually due to my finding no other way to make it interesting, because in the water your range of motion is much wider and its hard to describe swimming, and plus Pliosaurus is one of my all time favorite animals (underrated and overshadowed by Mosasaurus).

A 19m, 87 tonnes Pliosaurus, when will these B.S. about supersize pliosaurs will stop?????!

Don't you ever read the scientific works and publications people?

The largest P. macromerus (which is rather currently P. rossicus?) was estimated at 12.7m and 20 tons by Colin McHenry in his thesis about pliosaurs. This is even a generous estimate because it is based on a mandible suspected to be overly reconstructed and too large.

So, if there is not even solid evidences for large pliosaurs reaching 13m, how on Earth can you people still spread these stupidities about whale-sized pliosaurs while there is ZERO material or fossil hint about that?

Is it fanboyism, taste for exaggeration or the wish to misinform people about the size of these critters?

I wish the BBC Liopleurodon was never made...

A 19m, 87 tonnes Pliosaurus, when will these B.S. about supersize pliosaurs will stop?????!

Don't you ever read the scientific works and publications people?

The largest P. macromerus (which is rather currently P. rossicus?) was estimated at 12.7m and 20 tons by Colin McHenry in his thesis about pliosaurs. This is even a generous estimate because it is based on a mandible suspected to be overly reconstructed and too large.

So, if there is not even solid evidences for large pliosaurs reaching 13m, how on Earth can you people still spread these stupidities about whale-sized pliosaurs while there is ZERO material or fossil hint about that?

Is it fanboyism, taste for exaggeration or the wish to misinform people about the size of these critters?

I wish the BBC Liopleurodon was never made...

In water, the underwater reptile can weight much heavier, and remember that any reptile has something called Indeterminate growth, these means that the animal keep growing for as long as it lived, and after the discovery of a hadrosaur called dakota, that every dino spine has a layer of 1 cm nerve, which make them larger than we know it.

btw, if that's the size of the pliosaurus, you probably should do P. funkeii rather than P. macromerus

No, I talk about P. macromerus under McHenry 2009 and P. rossicus? under Benson 2013, not the Svalbard species.

And undeterminate growth changes nothing since the specimen I'm referring to is already suspected to have been old and large within its species (others P. macromerus are smaller than this).

And undeterminate growth applies to sharks too, and to all the fishes for that matter.

A 19m pliosaur is currently purely fiction, even a 15m pliosaur is fiction based on all the available fossil evidence.

Check the actual material by yourself and please stop spreading myths like this. Paleo-nerds are done with the kaiju-pliosaurs...

The 19 meter P.macromerus is based on my estimations which, if you really are doubting this much can do for yourself and then come back to me i did using the 380 cm long lower jaw in the Oxford Museum of natural History, Because Btw I read all the papers that have to do with P.kevani and P.funkei before writing this.

 If the P. kevani skull (200 cm) that was found on Weymouth bay belongs to a 12 meter long individual then a 380 cm long jaw draws us to the conclusion that the animal would measure over 20 m! but i also used the Funkei skull which was significantly larger at (250 cm), with the animal itself measuring just over 13 m (a single meter longer) and then i settled at about 18+ m!

 I know i shouldn't use proportions of different species, but if you think about it, we barely have anything of importance other than that jaw! so before you say that i didn't use any science you should do the math first and btw the BBC liopluerodon hadd nothing to do with it.

Anyway did you like the battle or no?

 The jaw i'm referring to by the way is OUMNH J.10454 or the Cumnor mandible, which for some reason i never found body estimations for, so did the estimation myself

Bad calculation and bad measurements.

The mandible in Oxford is actually 300 cm long (McHenry and Tarlo measurements), which means the skull would have been 250cm (McHenry 2009). The pliosaurid skull/body ratio is about 1:5.3.

The mandible would thus have belonged to a 12.7m pliosaur (read McHenry 2009).

But Richard Forrest suspects this mandible is overly reconstructed and that the original material was 1m shorter.

And no, Pliosaurus kevani, with a 2m skull, was nearer the 10m mark.

Sorry I've not appreciated your battle since I can't appreciate anymore fanciful mentions of supersized pliosaurs.

Carcharocles megalodon would beat by a long shot any known and recorded pliosaur by far.

The body size estimates exist and are figured in Colin McHenry thesis "Devourer of Gods".

No scientific or publication has ever indicated the Oxford mandible as coming from a 19m pliosaur. If anything and IF IT IS ACCURATELY RECONSTRCUTED (it is mostly made of wood), it comes from a 13m, 20 tonnes old Pliosaurus macromerus or rossicus specimen.

Read the actual scientific works, they are available.

 ok thank you for that clarification, because i usually like to be as accurate as possible and make my own calculations anyway, if you could link me the papers that would be much appreciated. The one thing i can't agree upon is the 20 ton thing, prehistoric animals have been shrink wrapped far too long and i think that even a 13 meter long pliosaur is at LEAST 30 tons! but i would like to ask your take on the Monster Of Aramberri fossil by the way.

wait a minute if the jaw is 300 cm then how can the skull be 250 cm long is it a faulty reconstruction?

Mandibles are longer than the skull in pliosaurs and the ratio uses the dorsal skull length, not the mandible.

20 tonnes for a 13m animal is already very bulky, as heavy as a white shark or most cetaceans the same length. It is based on the BMNH pliosaur volumetric model.

McHenry estimates the Aramberri pliosaur to have been 12m and 15 tonnes.

http://ogma.newcastle.edu.au:8080/vital/access/manager/Repository/uon:12164

thanks and i know the size of Monster of Aramberri i'm talking about those huge bite marks on the neck 

Why must you argue over the size of a damn pliosaur? Come on guys.

:'D it's what i thought but i just wanted to prove that im not basing this off of guesses 

Lol. Your battle was well written and I enjoyed it! I have never been truly into marine lizards, but I did enjoy this. About the pliosaur, you guys should just lay it to rest, seems both of you have some inaccuracies, but nothing really that important.

oh yeah, i almost forgot one thing...

Shark don't cannibalize (well at least adult one, sharks do known to cannibalize juvennile sharks), modern shark will instantly run away from the area if they smell a dead shark, and i would doubt if megalodon will cannibalize on each other (another adult megalodon)

that's just my opinion thought

Dynamosaurus :

The bite marks are pretty much meaningless, a calus can enlarge the bitten bone, or the struggle within the biting process.

And the bite marks are on the pterygoid and the jugal. 

Gorilla, there is zero inaccuracy in everything I've stated since it is based on the most recent scientific, peer reviewed research. 

Elite raptor, sharks cannibalize any other individual if the opportunity is available. There are known cases where a great white shark ate a smaller but still adult individual. Cannibalism is not exceptional in nature even orcas are known to cannibalize dead individuals of their kind.

In a realistic contest, the 18m megatooth shark (maximum conservative size) would have been confronted to a 13m pliosaur (the maximum size for this group of reptile) and the battle would have ended quickly.

James, you kinda went back in time here buddy XD. But other than that, yeah, the Pliosaurus was really over sized, whole debate about it in the comments section if you read through it. Ahh, I remember when I first read this XD