Allotitan
MemberCompsognathusJun-15-2014 6:41 PMSomething I read while looking at past dino exhibits at amnh American museum of natural history
Article if link doesn't work
Current research suggests that T. rex would have moved at the rough equivalent of 11 to 16 kilometers (seven to ten miles) per hour. This is much slower than many previous estimates, and it's certainly less speedy than most Hollywood versions of the great Cretaceous carnivore. However, this pace is based on the weight of the animal--6,000-plus kilograms (more than 13,000 pounds)--and the stresses on bone, muscle, and tendon that take place during movement. While no one knows exactly how huge tyrannosaurs held their legs, biomechanics experts think an animal the size of T. rex's might have gotten around on legs held in a relatively straight position. That way, the animal's greatest weight--its center of mass--would have been just above its knees. Big modern animals use this pose: elephants and rhinos walk with straighter legs than small, fast animals do. Model Behavior With fast computers and new simulation software, biomechanical scientists can re-create the muscles of T. rex and assess T. rex's theoretical top speed--though not whether the animal actually achieved it. By studying living animals, including chickens and humans, researchers figured out how much leg muscle it takes for an animal to run fast. Then they applied their findings to extinct dinosaurs, varying factors such as posture and weight, which affect movement. Their results? A sprinting T. rex was a physical impossibility. While a small theropod could run fairly quickly, a six-ton tyrannosaur would have required about three tons of leg muscle to reach speeds of 70 kilometers (45 miles) per hour! "Try This" Stand with bent legs while you count slowly to 10. Feel how tired your legs get? It takes 50 percent more energy to stand or move with bent legs than with legs held comfortably straight. Some researchers think T. rex, which was 170 times heavier than the average 10-year-old, moved about on straight legs, as elephants do, to conserve energy. Designing a Dinosaur T. rex is often shown with its great legs in a crouch--but was that a typical pose? Some biomechanical scientists doubt it. Their research shows that when large living mammals--elephants, hippos, rhinos, humans--lock their legs into an upright position, standing takes less energy. So T. rex may have been rather straight-legged, too. In contrast, small, light animals--who must evade predators--often trade energy efficiency for speed; many assume a bent-legged posture. In other words, a design that works at one size for one lifestyle may not work at another. The colored lines on this computer-generated right leg of a T. rex represent the muscles controlling locomotion. Computer modeling is a huge advance, letting researchers treat bones, tendons, and muscles as a single integrated system. T. rex vs. "Chicken Little" An old-fashioned barnyard chicken is fairly fast. Like any animal, it owes its speed partly to muscle anatomy. The muscles in each leg represent up to 10 percent of a chicken's body weight. In fact, chickens are overbuilt for speed: An animal of a chicken's weight and shape could run fast with only half that amount of leg muscle.The scientists who created the computer model of T. rex decided to enlarge a speedy chicken to T. rex's size while keeping its design the same, a process called scaling up. The result? A 6,000-kilogram (13,000-pound) chicken would need fantastically muscular legs just to walk. Instead of 10 percent, a running mega-fowl would need 62 percent of its body weight as muscle in each huge limb--a mathematical and biological impossibility. Scaling Up In nature, large organisms are rarely just scaled-up versions of small ones. For example, children have large heads relative to their bodies; as they grow, this proportion changes. Most increases in size are accompanied by similar adjustments of body structure. In other words, simple scaling up of a smaller bipedal dinosaur would not have resulted in a T. rex. Movie Magic In a tense moment in the film Jurassic Park, scientists in a speeding car flee a pursuing tyrannosaur--and the animal behind them seems to be closing in. But when filmmakers combined the animated creature with real footage, they had a problem. A T. rex moving as fast as the vehicle looked unrealistic; its legs were spinning, said one animator, "like Roadrunner's when he's going off a cliff. "The solution? Filmmakers slowed T. rex to about 25 kilometers (16 miles) per hour. The chase still looks fast because they slid extra scenery behind the animal. The new speed is within the range predicted by biomechanical modeling. What Is Running? All motion, whether dinosaur or human, is a struggle with gravity, but walking is an easier struggle than running. An animal walking on two legs--a human, for example--always has one foot on the ground; a running animal leaves the ground entirely for some of its stride. Running requires about two-and-a-half times the muscle force of walking, so it's possible T. rex didn't run at all.
When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Tell life I don't want you're damn lemons, and then squeeze them into life's eyes!
Mecha Rodan
MemberCompsognathusJun-15-2014 7:06 PMNice find Allotitan. I have been thinking of making a comparison of the possibilities of the rex being a predator or scavenger and i was going to say it could take a fast walk at about 12-15 miles per hour. Should i go for 12-15 or should I use the new 7-10 miles per hour?
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusJun-15-2014 7:53 PMIt was a tad bit faster then that, but not by much. around 18mph is what it could reach. It didn't need to be overly fast though, for the animals it hunted were just as slow.
There's no way it could reach the 35-45 mph it was once thought to achieve, in fact when a study was conducted, the model they used suggests that in order to run at 45 miles per hour, a T. rex would need 86 percent of its weight to be concentrated in the muscles supporting its legs. That leaves just 14 percent for all the other muscles, plus skin, skeleton, organs, teeth, and so on. And that would be one funny-looking dinosaur.
Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.
Something Real
MemberTyrannosaurus RexJun-16-2014 12:13 AMALLOTITAN - That is a very interesting bit of information! One thing is for certain: regardless of the aforementioned speed at which T-Rex purportedly moved, only a very healthy and extremely fast person could outrun one on a good day! Thank you very much for sharing this with us! :)
Dynamosaurus Imperiosus/ Raptorexxx 700
MemberCompsognathusJun-16-2014 3:36 AMALLOTITAN:Thanks for referencing your research about tyrannosaurus, but this is not new information to me as i read the very same article back in 2011,it was published in 2007-2008, but a new study on Theropod anatomy conducted in 2011 (link) shows that theropods actually used it's tail muscles to push it's legs forward and help its overall speed, agility, and athleticism. The study shows that Tyrannosaurus's speed has been underestimated by 25-45%!!! which, according to their research will put Tyrannosaurus's speed at a round 26.7-28.7 mph. You also have to remember that when this study was conducted Tyrannosaurus's weight was measured at 6 tons (13000 pounds) not the 9 tons (18000 pounds) measured today. There is also another study that shows dinosaurs ran in short fast strides much like bears and power walkers not like lions or cheetahs, which doesn't undermine what the study said which was "A T. rex sprinting was a physical impossibility." I hope you like my research and i really love your topics. Thanks for sharing
Allotitan
MemberCompsognathusJun-16-2014 4:12 AMNo problem guys. Thanks for feed back.
@raptorexxx 700
i know it wasn't new but it seemed to have a lot of information but so I posted it it think the exhibit it was for was only in the amnh in 2006 or something like that. But thanks for your research
When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Tell life I don't want you're damn lemons, and then squeeze them into life's eyes!
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJun-16-2014 9:55 AMI was just watching Dinosaur Planet and they talked about speed in big tyrannosaurs. To run 45 miles an hour as some paleontologists once thought, T.rex would need 80 percent of its muscle mass, concentrated in its legs. Physically impossible. The researchers concluded that T.rex moved more like an elephant than a roadrunner, closer to 10 miles an hour.
However, T.rex had legs that were heavily muscled and quite long compared to the rest of the body. Also, T.rex victims like hadrosaurs, which are often thought to run up to 20 miles per hour or so, have healed T.rex bite marks, suggesting a T.rex could catch up with one.
Overall, T.rex was no speed demon. An animal that weighs twice as much as an elephant is not gonna move too quickly. But it wasn't a tortise either. I'd say an adult T.rex could move up to 15-25 miles per hour.
Jezza
MemberCompsognathusJun-16-2014 1:29 PMI'd say 15-25 mph for Rex, I concur with Rex Fan. I not trying to start a spino vs rex thing here, but I'd put spino's speed at 25-34 mph.
Youre fat, and I'm not sugarcoating it cause you'd probably eat that too.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJun-16-2014 5:22 PMOh, I found this pic of T.rex muscle mass. Thought you guys might fiind it interesting....
Those are some large leg muscles.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJun-16-2014 5:27 PMOh, and check out the second article here...
http://newtrail.ualberta.ca/autumn2013/features/dinosaurhunters
John Morrison
MemberCompsognathusJun-17-2014 12:29 AMAllotitan- This is a good article and thank you for sharing it. This definatly makes sence, though this appears to focus on adults an not younger individuals. Still this fits pretty well for the adults.
Rex Fan 684- You bring up a good point with the hadrosaurs which raises a few possibilities. With this new info it is difficult to imagine a rex keeping pace with the hadrosaurs unless it ambushed them and caught them of guard, or my favorite theroy, the juveniles chasing prey into the adults open jaws like lions do today.
Still with the new discoveries in paleontology coming in every day who knows what the future will reveal for T. rex top speed. We will just have to wait and thats all part of the fun.
Ian Malcolm: No I'm, I'm simply saying that life - uhhh - finds a way.