Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-01-2013 9:48 AMWhen I was thinking about Spinosaurs, I realized that none of them live in America. At least North America, and this makes me wonder, "why"? Spinosaurs in the north isn't as rare as it might be. Suchosaurus, Baryonyx, and I bet even Icthiovenator lived above the equator sometimes. Also, why where they so big, and yet they lived in places where food was small, or just too big. Ie, in Africa the only real good food source is Ouranosaurus. It is the perfect size for a meal, and Aegyptosaurus is to big to be attacked regularly. It really lacks herbivores, and yet it grows huge. same of Oxalaia, it lived in a place of nearly no hadrosaurs and only sauropods that only the biggest or packs would take on. That means that they relied very heavily on fish for their diet. Hadrosaurs and Ceratopsians really aren't on the menu. Why haven't any Spinosaurs been found in America? Well I think that they where out competed by the tyrannosaurs, or even Acrocanthosaurus. And correct me if im wrong (and my ancient geography isnt good at all) but america wasnt the wettest country there was. spinosaurs seem to live in places where lost of water surrounded it, like africa, with its see going In the middle. there where rivers in america, but i dotn think anything lived in the rivers big enough to sustain a large spinosaur.
But there is a very different side to this story. One, Siamosaurus and Siamotyrannus lived together and they both thrived. Two, and this is almost a life changing thing about Spinosaurus, is that Spino is probably a LOT heavier than we originally thought. In my theropod discussion, I DinoFights made a comment that basically said that compares a Ornithomimus to a Spinosaurus. And how an 18 meter Ornithomimus would be peretty heavy, and since Spino is sooo much thicker than Ornithomimus, that it would be calling a 12 ton Spinosaurus on the lighter side.
I also have something to argue with that. A 12+ ton Spinosaurus wouldn't be able to stand, which means that it would need to be soley in the water for most of its life, and that can't really happen. There is only so much weight that two legs can support and the heavier you get, the stronger your legs need to be, which also means you get heavier, and that means that your legs have to support more. Even if you have shorter legs like Spinosaurus, you could only be able to support so much weight. Also, the strength of its legs would start to fall behind if a theropod gets just to big, fan even as they get thicker, the rest of the body gets thicker at a faster rate. Basically what I'm saying is an 11 tons Spinosaurus would have trouble standing without help, so a 12+ ton Spinosaur would need to be supported by the water, meaning it could catch fish, and really only fish, so then why is it so heavy? It would just waste energy, and nature doesn't waste. This happens for all theropods, so there is size limit for the size of a theropod and weight.
I do apologize for the grammar and spelling mistakes, I really hate doing revising on any day, even if it is a dinosaur paper. All I'm saying is that Spinosaurs didn't live in America for a reason. The hadrosaurs and Ceratopsians. They are made to survive very strong dinosaur attacks, and the Spinosaurs really aren't durable enough. I'd like to hear what you say, of course, I'd need to turn up the adio on my IPad and you speak into a speaker. You know, what, just make a comment and we won't have to go thought eh trouble of figuring something out. These are my opinions too, and I don't want anybody saying that I'm wrong, okay. We all have opinions and I probably disagree with you. That doesn't mean you are wrong and I'm write. Just telling you, although you probably already know.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 7:53 PMEh, I see a 40 ft Rex weighing at least 8 tons, maybe 9.
For the record I did not even bring up Spinosaurus in that comment ;)
Besides, Rex and Spino have different proportions and muscle masses. I was just mentioning that to remind people that Tyrannosaurus may be heavier than thought ;)
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 8:05 PMWell yeah, but this is a Spino discussion. If the Rex in that picture (the biggest known) is 8-10 tons, then that Spino is utterly massive.
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Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 8:07 PMToo massive in my opinion ;)
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 8:13 PMI'm with you all the way DinoFights. Spino is not a lean, light predator, it is extremely heavy. This, however, does not mean that Spino couldn't bear it's own weight. Spino had strong, muscular legs. I am personally of the mindset that Spino did not actually swim, and I don't think ANY theropods were built to swim. However, I do think Spino spent a good amount of time standing in rivers, catching fish and crocs with it's long snout.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 8:15 PMIf theropods did not swim, then they would be unlike every other group of land dwelling animals.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 8:19 PMI'm not sure on swimming. It's dangerous for an animal that spent most of its time in water to not be able to swim.
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Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 8:35 PMI think Spino could swim, if it is a fish eater, then it would almost certainly have to. It probably swam by swinging its tail back and forth, at the base of the tail so the rest retains tension.
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 9:30 PMLet me rephrase. I believe Spino could swim. However, I feel this was more of a doggy-paddle motion (if you can imagine such a thing). Spino's back legs would have pumped under it while it's arms were out in front. Some think Spino would have gracefully glided under the water like a pliosaur, but theropods are not built this way. The proportion of arms to legs for example, or perhaps the lack of webbing (or similar structure) on the limbs - both of these go against the notion of underwater gliding. Spino's legs were built under it; they were not flexible enough to reach back parallel to the body beside the tail like, for example, a crocodile.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 9:30 PMLet me rephrase. I believe Spino could swim. However, I feel this was more of a doggy-paddle motion (if you can imagine such a thing). Spino's back legs would have pumped under it while it's arms were out in front. Some think Spino would have gracefully glided under the water like a pliosaur, but theropods are not built this way. The proportion of arms to legs for example, or perhaps the lack of webbing (or similar structure) on the limbs - both of these go against the notion of underwater gliding. Spino's legs were built under it; they were not flexible enough to reach back parallel to the body beside the tail like, for example, a crocodile.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-08-2013 10:29 PMThere's three ways I see it swimming.
1. Doggy paddling
[img]http://i40.tinypic.com/mts11c.jpg[/img]
2. Leg kicking with arms to the side
[img]http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/320/c/b/swimming_theropod_by_cheungchungtat-d32z5by.jpg[/img]
3. With its legs and arms back, undulating its tail while using its mouth and sometimes arms to grab prey.
[img]http://i27.tinypic.com/2cgfr5c.jpg[/img]
But keep in mind that Spinosaurus was at least 25 feet tall and would be able to stand in quite a bit of water.
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Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 1:08 AMSpino's sail was 25-27 feet tall, the head and neck probably went up to 21 feet. It had proportionately shorter legs than say T. rex, so I guess that it could hold more wight. Shorter stockier legs = more strength after all.
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 2:25 AMYeah, but even though it was stockier, Tyrannosaurus itself was 18-20 feet at the top of the head.
Spino being 5-7 feet taller with its head up doesn't sound unreasonable for an animal almost 20 feet longer.
But yes, I do agree that Spinosaurus' stocky legs would help it support so much weight.
Have you heard the theory that Spinosaurus had inflexible stumpy elephantine legs to help it support all the weight? I think that theory is ridiculous.
[img]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/293/6/a/6a24da1dc38c4be030ee9585a1ceb7c3-d314h8i.jpg[/img]
Utterly ridiculous. It's right up there with this
[img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3PPAOln6iFo/Ui12xrxt5bI/AAAAAAAAAI4/sg_B0TzGeeQ/s640/blogger-image--2010657551.jpg[/img]
In terms of Spino hating...
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Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 5:20 AM"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 9:13 AMNot shorter, just shorter in relation to body size. And Wikipedia scales are among the most inaccurate scales on the planet, which is why I avoid them.
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Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 1:49 PMI never look at Wikipedia scales, but remember, height is normally measured at the hips, so rex is around 16 feet tall. So is Giganotosaurus, and I think Spino is only around 5 feet taller at the hips. Head is a different story though.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 3:06 PMI usually say Spinosaurus is 20-23 ft tall at the head(23-25 ft at the sail), Tyrannosaurus was 18-21 ft tall at the head, and Giganotosaurus was comparable to Tyrannosaurus.
I use Wikipedia scales only if I agree with them. I have a few on my site, but only ones I see as accurate, and frankly, they aren't too accurate. Same as many of the size estimates ;)
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 3:24 PMI'm at T. rex 16-17 feet at the hips, Giganotosaurus at 20 feet hips, and Spino also 20 feet hips. Top of sail 26-27 feet.
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 5:24 PMI measure height at the head because hip height isn't peak height.
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Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 5:52 PMYeah, I don't like hip height. Plus, it makes the dinosaur sound less impressive, haha. Which sounds scarier? A 20 ft tall Rex or a 13-16 ft tall Rex? A 20 ft tall Giga or a 13-16 ft tall Giga? You get what I mean?
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 7:29 PMHip height and head hight might be the same if the large dinosaurs held thier heads like this
[img]http://www.hugi.is/media/contentimages/55104.jpg[/img]
[img]http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111116692/3088248-7902700878-tyran.jpg[/img]
DinoFights
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 8:06 PMOf course they would have most of the time, but standing with the head up from time to time (as when surprised) like this
[img]http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130609162224/jurassicpark/images/8/89/Ceratosaurus1.jpg[/img]
Is almost certain.
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Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 8:25 PMYeah. They walked with their bodies(and heads) horizontal to the ground most of the time, but when surprised, trying to look bigger for intimidation or attraction(mating), or even just trying to get a better view of something, they would have been more erect and therefore taller.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusSep-09-2013 9:36 PMTrue, but most of the time, they'd be horizontal, so really, the more vertical wouldnt count for much.
Elite Raptor 007
MemberCompsognathusJan-21-2014 6:16 AMyeah, the predator were used to be horizontal, they only vertical when they scout their prey, and sized up their competators, they need to be horizontal so they can be more aerodynamics when they chased their prey down.
Jezza
MemberCompsognathusFeb-19-2014 12:38 AMSpino was probably around 11.5-12 tons max. And as for the whole, "Spino lived strictly in water", idea, I find very, very unlikely.
Youre fat, and I'm not sugarcoating it cause you'd probably eat that too.
Carnosaur
MemberCompsognathusJun-15-2014 4:11 PMthey once thought sauropods did that, but now that has been discredited. Indeed it did spend alot of its time in the water, fishing but it didn't just stay there. Spinosaurus was bipedal. No question about that one. It's arms(still to be discovered, mind you) would not be adequate for a quadrupedal stance.
Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.