Tyrannosaurus rex vs giganotosaurus carolinii

Tyrant you cant just hide behind a defensive wall of "I have studies that prove otherwise" because if you look at the studies for the leaner Giga, then you would realise that those studies come from paleontologists that are devoted to the Charcharadontosaurs and so have a far more influential position on the subject at hand. 

PK is pretty spot on when it comes to intelligence and fighting, the more intelligent animal will have the upper hand because it wont have to rely soley on instinct to fight, because in the end any fight between any animals is a game of chess. And the more intelligent always wins at chess, unless luck happens but this should be a luck free zone.

Almost all Tyrannosaurs going back to Raptorex have had jaws that act like ball and socket joints, and the reason that is important (and in PK's favor) is because all modern day snakes have a roughly similar jaw configuration and they can completely unhinge their jaws ( I mean the ball and socket like joints, not the jaws and skulls themselves).

Doing this from a phone so proper english is hard.

1. Put your money where your mouth is. ;) Show me those. Also, again, I am talking about the most up to date studies on the topic, conducted by Scott Hartman.

2. I am talking about theropods. I was just using the lions as an example.

3. once again, I produced a study, now your turn to do the exact opposite. Also, that was published a year and a half ago, so yours should be newer than that to disprove it.

I would say Rex...

If it's 1 V 1...Rex 55 to 45 Rex's favour

If it's a pack? Giga 90 to 10...

I stil, back Rex as the facts stated by PK and Vader...

But I'm not going agaisnt Giga, and if you think they're being bias, well you know Im not Im a Spino Fan...I still think Rex would win...but sometime being bias is part of a debate...

Me being bias? 

Giga smashes Rex 10000000 times, Rex stand no chance, etc.

But face the facts... like I have, Rex would win.

;D good to see you PK, and you to Happy.

Rex 55 %

Giga 45 %

T.rex is most definitely heavier and stronger built. Scott Hartman already proved it in his latest comparison. In fact if you view both animals from the top you can see a much bulkier animal T.rex is compared to Giga.

http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/mass-estimates-north-vs-south-redux772013

T.rex takes this 70/30 for more effective one bit one kill bone crushing bite, more durable and stronger.

KINGZILLA Although I agree with you, I think 30 for Giga is a little low, but I get you.

Ganging up on me again? Huh, expected.

 The most recent and convincing size estimate (and at that probably the only one that gave a rigorous, quantitative estimate for both of them) would be Scott Hartman’s (2013) one, which estimated the largest known T. rex (FMNH PR 2081) and Giganotosaurus (MUCPv-95) specimens at a very similar volume and  the Giganotosaurus specimen is the larger one in two, while the T. rex is the largest in 30 or more adults, and an exceptionally old one at that.. you can easily notice how the smallest Giganotosaurus (MUCPv-Ch1) is indeed far larger than the smallest adult T. rex (MOR 1125: according to Schweitzer et al. 2008, its femur is only 107cm long, which suggests that it is likely about 10m long), demonstrating that on average and as a species, Giganotosaurus is indeed likely the larger of the two, although to what extent is tricky to determine.

2. Giga is very closely related to allosaurids and theye have a gape of nearly 90 degrees. Giga has a similar tooth design. Among the factors that will constrain an animal’s gape angle are the placement of the muscles: If for a given jaw the muscles need a large in-lever, they have to attach more anteriorly, which in turn means that to open the jaws to the same angle, the muscles have to stretch more. If a muscle is thick, that will also mean it is rostrocaudally long, which will again mean that the front part has to be stretched more strongly. Additionally, a more pennate muscle will contract over a shorter distance and thus allow a lower range of motion. 

EVERYONE - Please, go easy on one-another. Each of you is exceptionally intelligent and capable of presenting and defending your arguments with exemplary skill! Do not waste this chance to conduct an interesting and in-depth dialogue on squabbling or harsh feelings; civil discourse is best when practiced in a peaceful atmosphere! This is an exceedingly compelling topic; one that has been discussed on many occasions. We could bring to light all manner of information - and perhaps even discover new possibilities!

TYRANT KING - This is a very fun topic! I happen to feel that Tyrannosaurus might be the heavier hitter with regards to combat against Giganotosaurus. However, my assessment is based primarily on lineage and evolutionary continuation. Tyrannosaurus' bloodline advanced further than that of the Giganotosaurus, ergo it was a stronger and more capable predator. However, I also happen to think that a battle between these two animals - regardless of genetic viability - would have been extremely dangerous for both. Each massed in at weights heavier than an African elephant, and both were armed with true weapons of mass destrutcion! I have a feeling that a battle between T-rex and Giga would have been something like two men fighting each other with high-powered rifles; the first one to get a good shot wins! :)

I'm afraid you're not understanding this correctly Tyrant King. First of all Sue is the largest T.rex specimen confirmed by the most reliable fossile remains, but not necessarily the largest in theory.

You see Hartman made the weight estimate of Giga specimen MUCPv-95 based on the assumption of a linear size increase corresponding to the Type specimen. But in actuality this could well mean that the MUCPv-95 specimen simply had a particularly big lower jaw bone, 10% bigger to be exact. There are similar cases in T.rexes too where individual body parts of some T.rexes are bigger than Sue's corresponding ones, but still smaller in overall size. So if you wanna play that card, then the T.rex UCMP137538 specimem had a toe bone 20% longer than Sue's so that'll make it 13-16tons if scaling up linearly. Also C.rex is another specimen that has many corresponding bones bigger than Sue's.

Now since we only have a single lower jaw bone of MUCPv-95, it's far from conclusive that it actually reached the weight Hartman has given to it. It's just a hypothetical estimate based on the best case scenario, wherease Sue's weight is most reliable due to very complete skeleton and to some extent the Type specimen of Giga.

So for now the most reliable data shows T.rex is the beavier animal, also you can't make any meaningful average weight for either animal based on a handful of specimens, you need hundreds and thousands of speciemns to come anywhere close. But based on the proportion, we can easily see who's the stronger, heavier theropod at equal length or even at a length disavantage.

^

Agreed :P

1. That size that you gave was older than Hartman's most recent one. Also, although Giganotosaurus was longer, Hartman proved Tyrannosaurus weighed much more, even on average. This is the very recent post that proves it Linkity link link

2. Both animal's jaws attached anteriorally. All theropods did. That proved nothing.  Not sure where you found that info. 

Your links don't work.

That's so weird. It was working for me earlier. Sorry about that, Tyrant. Here, try this. 

http://www.skeletaldrawing.com/home/mass-estimates-north-vs-south-redux772013

or Link

I've already seen the first one many times.

Ok.... No rebuttal. That is Hartman's most recent. 

I take it that I won.

Just cause I didnt have 20 paragraphs in my last post dosent mean you won..............

No, the fact that you have no rebuttal means I won.

No. I posted very little posts cause I am very busy at the momen. Not cause you one. 

There are like dozens of rex specimens and two of giga, one being a haw and vertebra. Sowhat the largest COMPLETE speciemen of rex matches the giga holotype is size. The undescribed specimen (MUCPv-95) is slightly larger then the holotype and is already bigger then sue. And so what if rex is wider? Giga is longer. Andthe two gigas outsize most of the rex specemins. i you will know when I loose. And that's not now. 

Do you have trouble understanding Tyrant King? The MUCPv-95 is just a jaw bone fragment, the hypothetical weight data from it is far from as reliable as Sue's. As of now you can only legitamately use the Holotype of giga for anything reliable since it's for more complete. Like I said earlier, if you're using MUCPv-95, then we should also include all the UCMP T.rex specimens which I would not recommend you do that, since you'll be in a far more disavantageous position than you are now.

Besides, MUCPv-95 is longer but not larger as in weight. Sue is still heavier and bulkier so in a fight the heavier and stronger opponenet usually wins. That is if the MUCPv-95 specimen wasn't simply just a big jawed individual.

Judging by the data that Tyrant King gave us, this would be 50/50. And guys, don't forget that we know very few thing about Giganotosaurus(and compared to T.rex...nothing), so unless you have a time machine in your garage than don't talk about some things as facts.