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Theropod vs modern mammal

Tyrant king

MemberCompsognathusFebruary 08, 20155545 Views33 Replies

This is a discussion about how theropods stack up afain modern carnivores at parity of course.

i will say who will come out on top in terms of groups. The mammals are: ursids, big felines, and big cainines.

i will break down every theropod group.

fisrt up. And remembe, this is at PARITY. For those of you who don't know what that means it is when the two  combatnts are the same size.

carcharadontosaurids vs mammal. 65/35 in favor of the Dino. Why? Because the carcharadons have such devaststing jaws that would tear apart the nammal, though it would be a good fight.

abeliosaurids vs mammal. This is tricky cause there are two kinds of them. Carnotaurus and others that scavenged or hunted small prey would loose pretty bad 70/30 in favor of the mammal.  Because of there weak jaws and lack of arms. Though the better ones like ekrixinotosaurus and majungatholus/saurus would still loose but would put up a good fight. 60/40 in favor of the mammal.

spinosaurid vs mammal: same as above. spinosaurids that are frail like suchonimus would loose 70/30 to mammals because of there frail bodies and weak jaws. Though better ones like spinosaurus and baryonx would put up one hell of a fight and would win a large minority of the time. 55/45. Because of their some what unimpressive jaws.

dromeosaurids vs mammals: the string arms, powerfu legs and deadly bites, it would prove too much for the mamma.67.5/36.5. 

Megalosaurids Vs mammals: the megalosaurida have a bulky build, strong bite, and very powerful arms, that will ensure them victory over the mammalian counterparts. 70/30 Dino.

 Tyrranisaurid vs mammal: this is strange, there are three kinds of tyrranosairids. The early ones who had a sleek build with slender but still strong jaws and powerful arms such as kileskus and guanlong, would slightly prevail more often. 65/35 Dino. Others like gorgosaurus and albertosaurus which are somewhat sleek but still have a fairly powerful bite would prevail with the same numbers. 65/35. Though the big ones like t.rex himself would prevail 70/30 over the mammals.

dilophosurids vs mammals: there bites are not overly impressive but there nothing to laugh at. The same can be said for the rest of them. there slenderness would prove a hindrance. 50/50.

troodontids vs mammals: these are like sleeke, weaker versions of dromeosaurids with smaller claws and weaker bites. But they still are a force to be wrecked with. 55/45 in favor of Dino.

Ceolophysids vs mammal: see above. 55/45 in favor of mammal.

therizenosaurid vs mammal: this is tough. their bites would just be annoyances but their claws would price a big problem. I'm not to sure on this one so I will say 50/50. 

Pro/compsognathids vs mammal. See dromeosaurid. And troodontid. 50/50.

allosaurids vs mammal: allosaurids have a decent bite, strong arms, and agile build, and hatchet bite. But iit isn't as bulky as the carcharadon.  This is a great predator. 65/35. In favor of Dino.

sinraptor/yangchuanosaurus/metricantosaurus: these are allosaurids on steroid. 70/30 Dino.

ok, theropods are the clea winner in this. They just bring to much to the fight but the mammals will go down swinging.

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Cryolophosaurus
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I will edit this with a response once I decipher what you just said into unbreken english, so say an hour-hour and a half.

" It is better to be reviled than ignored, agleast then you know your spreading good in this world." 

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Lord Vader
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Cryo, easy. You're coming off as a bit hostile. I see that TK is ticking you off, but just take it easy. Not everyone is expert. Some people do research and build their own opinions off that research. 

 

The deciphering bit though, not cool. 

Jack of all trades. Master of none

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Tyrant king
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the ticking off is going both ways but i will not argue.

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Carnosaur
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hmm, i dunno why we would call R. primus 'weak' when we only have material from a juvenile animal. Seems a bit unbalanced, to me at least.

@Cryo, while i do agree some sources backing the info would be nice,  i do believe the way you're going after TK seems a bit harsh.

anyway, let's take a look at your argument.

"As I already stated earlier, Rob Bakker has analyzed the carnotaurus and has concluded that it hunted sauropods. "

Bakker also suggested that C. sastrei was a small game specialist due to its jaw mechanics due to how kinetic its skull was (Mazetta 1998)

I've seen no recent literature regarding C. sastrei as a sauropod hunter. In fact, another member on a different forum said this about the supposed "sledgehammer" feeding mechanisms you seem to be alluding to. Here's what he has to say:

" I’ve got some doubts about the proposed "sledgehammer hypothesis".
When people use it (e.g. Bakker 1998), usually Allosaurus comes up as an analogy, but this is problematic, because they are actually very different in a number of features:

Firstly, Carnotaurus doesn’t have downturned paroccipital processes to enhance the ventroflexive ability of its head and neck as is the case in Allosaurus (Bakker 1998, Antón et al. 2003, Snively et al. 2007, 2013). Rather its paroccipital processes are directed laterally (Bonaparte 1990) as is the case with basal ceratosaurs. Naturally, that alone already implies major differences in muscle arrangement between the two (but there’s far more to it than that).

Secondly, the proportions of their skull. It is true neither of them has a particularly large head and both are deep-skulled, but the similarities end there. Compared toAllosaurus (Madsen 1976), the skull of Carnotaurus is completely differently proportioned, being almost as tall as it is long, having a much shorter rostrum and being proportionately wider. This is not a design that would be particularly suitable for relying on impact feeding as it reduces the velocity which can be reached at the toothrow.

Thirdly, their necks:
That of Allosaurus has been described as particularly flexible (Snively et al 2007, 2013), that of Carnotaurus was likely rather rigid due to tis very robust osteology (Méndez 2014). The supposed slashing and striking for Allosaurus is a motion that would require a fair degree of flexibility–this was even one of the key points of criticism brought forth against it (Antón et al. 2003).
That’s not everything though. The neck of Carnotaurus is a highly unusual structure with huge, dorsally tall epipophyses but tiny, atrophied neural spines. 

So with all these differences I would highly doubt we can really compare them. There is more of course, for example the entire postcranium, but I’m focusing on the head and neck here.

Carnotaurus’ wide, robust neck, proportionately shorter and more brevirostrine skull, differences in basicranial muscle insertions and the large epipophyses suggest it held onto prey with its jaws, not that it slashed at it. It is plausible it did that in a very explosive motion of course, but I don’t think it was suited for dealing considerable damage with a powerful strike alone."

i'd say i have to wholely agree with him.

Given the fact that carnotaurus was probably a rather fast animal (Mazzetta 998) it's entirely plausible that it was a small to mid game specialist, but that's just my own hypothesis.

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Tyrant king
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as i have said time and time agin, i cant post links!!! which means i cant post sources. so please stop asking.

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Cryolophosaurus
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Carnosaur, while I was only pointing out Carnotaurus for my previous statements, I find that the Abelisaurs were not given fair representation. And yes, I realise that Carnotaurus may not have had the skull for such hunting. But with how little the Carnotaurus has examined, and the fact that we only have a single specimen that may have a skull/neck deformity that dosnt represent the whole species. As a fellow scientist that is far more informed than myself, you must realise that there is necessary room for such doubt.

" It is better to be reviled than ignored, agleast then you know your spreading good in this world." 

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Carnosaur
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No pathologies were described in Bonaparte 1985 in the cranial region, so i don't see any reason to think such.

what we have of C. sastrei is a reasonaby, an pretty darned well preserved single skeleton. what that does is give us a clear insight onto how it was shaped, how it moved, etc. We have more of carnotaurus then we do for a lot of other taxon, so i do believe what we have, and what has been put through the wringer via multiple scholarly articles, is quite solid.

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Tyrant king
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I don't see how you say carnotaurus hunoted sauropods with its small teeth and very short jaws and lack of arms.

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Carnosaur
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TK,, "lack of arms" doesn't denote abelisaurs as not sauropod hunters -- in fact any animal of appropriate size could theoreticaly do so,if it was driven to i supppose. Allosaurs just have better weaponry to desl with them (at least it has been proposed) then other theropods do.

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Tyrant king
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when you are hunting a sauropod and it knocks you over your gonna wish you had arms. And of course most preds could hunt a sauropod of approprivate size. 

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Silver_Falcon
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Here, have a waffle (-'.')-#

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Carnosaur
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could theropods even catch themseles in falls? i doubt it. and even if they tried, the humerus would pobably snap under the stresses of their weight.

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Tyrant king
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Don't compare theropods to ostrichs.

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