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The size of Alamosaurus sanjuanensis

Carnosaur

MemberCompsognathusAugust 18, 201410192 Views40 Replies

This sauropod really lives up to the family name. The titanosaurs were the last of the giants, and Alamosaurus was no exception

The scientifically accepted size for this creature is enormous enough - 15 meters long and a head that towers into the sky at 8.4 meters.

Case closed right?

erhm...not really

In 1999, a string of neck vertebrate were discovered in the Big Bend region of Texas. The hillside in which it was discovered yielded partial pelvic bones and ten articulated cervical vertebrae.

Big Bend Alamosaurus dig

A cursory glance at the fossilized remains shows that they appear to be titanosaurine in nature

Don't quote me on that one, as i don't specialize in categorizing vertebrate based on a cursory glance. For all intensive purposes, they do resemble those of Alamosaurus and the likely hood of two titanosaur species inhabiting the same area at the same time is highly unlikely.

The vertebrae were found side by side, stretching for around 8 meters. From the pictures, those ten vertebrae look like the ten largest, which should account for almost all of the neck except for the first few cervicals behind the head. 23 feet, and we find that it is almost exactly 1.5 times bigger than the one listed above. If its proportions are like the other specimens of Alamosaurus found The numbers would be astoundingly large.

Confirmed Alamosaurus sizes:                 "Big bend sauropod"

Lenght: 15.6 meters                                Length: 24 meters

Height: 8.4 meters                                   Height: 12.6 meters

Now, let's look at some other titanosaur species for weight calculations.

Basing off of Aegyptosaurus( which was in the same length and height class)

 The 52-foot 'normal' animal probably had a mass around 15 tons. now, the 79 foot "big bend" specimen would be substantially larger then that. Titanosaurus were some of the heavier sauropods, and doing the basic calculations:

The 79-footer would have been about 50 tons (1.5^3 = 3.375)

There are vague rumors floating around the internet of a hundred foot specimen, which i believe to be just an internet rumor.

For now, i believe we have confirmation of this big bend sauropod belonging to Alamosaurus, and the already giant sauropod just got a bit bigger.

 

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Carnosaur
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Yes, but "could be larger" is exactly like the fragmentary tyrannosaurs, or spinosaurus....any dinosaur really.

The minimum The shaft dimensions of MCF-PVPH-108.145 are7.5 by 10 cm, which is 10% greater than those inthe holotype of Giganotosaurus. This suggests thatthe specimen represents the largest individual ofMapusaurus n. gen. from the bonebed.

Fromthislink: http://www.mnhn.fhttp://www.mnhn.fr/museum/front/medias/publication/7653_g06n1a4.pdfr/museum/front/medias/publication/7653_g06n1a4.pdf 

I've never trusted Wikipedia scales. Wikipedia itself puts mapu at 33 feet and 3 tons.

wikipedia actually refers to the max size as being undefined but about as larger as giganotosaurus and > 10,2m. every other website states 12,2+m as a max lenght.
the publication initially describing mapu refers to it as larger than 12,2m. the theropod database which is a reliable source refers to the fibula as belonging to a 12,6m individual, and the pubic shaft could be bigger depending on the proportions of the animal. 33ft is no serious max size estimate. If i'm correct, it was the smaller individual found in the group of individuals that was unearthed. And the larger specimens aren't Fossilized freaks, the chances of us finding one of those are rather low.

 

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Rex Fan 684
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Agree to disagree. I estimate Mapusaurus at 10-12 meters and 3-5 tons and Giganotosaurus at 12-14 meters long and 6-8.5 tons. 

 

Besides, this was about Alamsaurus, not Giganotosaurus/Mapusaurus.

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Hiphopananomus
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Yeah. My estimates are

mapu 10-11.5 meters and 3-6 tons

giga 12.5-14 meters and 7-8.5 tons.

"Somewhere on this island is the greatest predator that ever lived. Second greatest predator must take him down."Roland Tembo"

"Jurassic park: The Lost World"

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Carnosaur
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why such lower bounds for mapu? We have remains pointing at the species being larger then 10, 11, or even 12 meters

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Rex Fan 684
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Didn't you put the lower estimate of Tyrannosaurus at 10 meters? I have no idea where you got that number when Black Beauty is the smallest adult we have and she's 11 meters.

 

Anyways, because the lower published estimates are indeed 10 meters for Mapusaurus. 

"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names." ―Alpha-98
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Hiphopananomus
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Yeah most if not all paleontolgists estimate mapu at 10-11 meters 12 is ussualy pushing it.

"Somewhere on this island is the greatest predator that ever lived. Second greatest predator must take him down."Roland Tembo"

"Jurassic park: The Lost World"

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Carnosaur
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when did black beauty get a size upgrade? She is one of the smaller adults, if not the smallest we have at 10.5 meters in length.

If Black Beauty has a ~5-tonne mass(A guess, but pretty likely), it's an adult smaller than Stan. Stan represents one of the smaller tyrannosaur adults, correct?

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Sci-Fi King25
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Nice dinosaur choice Carnosaur!

“Banana oil.”- George Takei, Gigantis: The Fire Monster

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Rex Fan 684
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I said Black Beauty is the smallest adult.

 

Stan was about 40.1 feet long.

"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names." ―Alpha-98
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Carnosaur
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Exactly! and "she" is aorund the 10.5 meter mark. If i remember correctly i said the lower bound estimates for tyrannosaurus were 11 meters...

you and HHP misread me. Why such deflated estimates for Mapu( 10-12 meters) when we have evidence of a select few individuals exceeding that size?

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Rex Fan 684
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Because that "evidence" is scanty. 

 

Anyways, I'll draw my own conclusions thank you.

"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names." ―Alpha-98
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Hiphopananomus
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Yeah, the evidence is far unreliable. 

"Somewhere on this island is the greatest predator that ever lived. Second greatest predator must take him down."Roland Tembo"

"Jurassic park: The Lost World"

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Carnosaur
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But we take the toe bone and other fragmentary tyrannosaurs as evidence? and not more decently preserved remains?

You simply cannot do that.

Also, there's no need to be agitated. It's called debate for a reason ;)

@HHP how is it unreliable?

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Rex Fan 684
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I for one don't use the toe bone as evidence. I use specimens like Celeste, which is somewhat complete.

"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names." ―Alpha-98
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Alejandro Coria Sabella
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I agree with Carnosaur about Mapu being larger than 10-12 meters as there is some evidence that points to Mapu being about 14 meters at the most but I do not agree with you saying that it was larger than Giga even though evidence points to the fact that the upper estimates for both are around 14 meters, but the average estimates of most paleontologists for Giga tend to be larger than Mapu.

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Huge-Ben
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Thanks for sharing there carnosaur, great find. :)

http://hugeben.deviantart.com/  check out my gallery of Godzilla artwork! Follow me on Twitter@thebigbadben90.

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Carnosaur
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Celeste is based on field guesses made by no other then Jack horner. He said something about Celeste being 10% bigger then Sue, which would put her ~ 43-45 feet long. 50 feet is an overexaggeration. That being said, a 45 foot rex would weigh close to nine tons. I haven't seen any other info regardeing "c-rex" other then the field estimates

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Rex Fan 684
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Actually, if you check my site, there is no 50 ft estimate anymore. It's now 40-46 ft and 7-10 tons.

 

(If Sue was 9 tons at 42 ft, then a 45 ft Rex would easily be 10 tons)

"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names." ―Alpha-98
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Carnosaur
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See, i see  The estimates of 9.1-10.0+ tons  estimates as too high - as those models seem to have Sue being very fat. Like wise the original estimates of 7 tonnes seems to be too light, and skinny. 

Scott Hartman's estimate of 8.4 tonnes, sounds very reasonable, therefore "Celeste" would be pushing 9 tons, maybe a little bit more.

Nature doesn't deceive us; it is we who deceive ourselves.

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Rex Fan 684
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Or Sue was very muscular. Afterall, muscle weighs more than fat.

"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names." ―Alpha-98

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