Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:09 PMAs many of you know, previously I have made it known that I think, in a Rex vs. Spino fight, the odds are in Rex's favor. I would like to publicly state that I no longer have this mindset, and I believe that Rex and Spino would have a perfectly equal, 50 - 50 chance of beating each other if pitted against each other. Of course, it is impossible that Rex and Spino would have ever come into contact, but if they could have, my new opinion stands.
Let me start with an analogy. You've got your club, and you've got your spear. When swung, the club crushes bone on impact, leaving serious, fatal damage. The swing of the club is heavy, forceful, and brutal. However, dodge the club and it takes a moment for the attacker to regain composure to swing the heavy club again. Now take, for example, the spear. The spear is light and swift, and while a puncture from a spear is not bone-crushing, it can certainly be fatal. Because the spear is so light, it can be very-easily wielded, and someone holding a long, sharp spear has a good chance of wounding / killing an opponent. However, the lightness and speed of the spear comes at a cost - they are fragile weapons, and can be easily broken.
While the person with a club has brute force and fatal impact on their side, the weight of the club can become a problem. And while the person with the spear has swiftness, speed for running and dodging, and a sharp weapon, the fragility of the spear makes the person vulnerable.
As you have probably guessed, the club represents Rex, while the spear represents Spino. After close observation of that highly controversial fight scene in Jurassic Park III, I would like to point out that, believe it or not, Rex and Spino were evenly matched. This was not some impossible feat; Spino took down Rex, end of story. Spino had the swiftness, cunning, and sharp claws and arms to take Rex down. It just so happened that Rex's brute strength and bone-crushing jaws were not enough in this instance. (Watch the scene, and you will notice that the grip Rex has on Spino's neck at the beginning is shallow and higher up along the top of the neck. Spino, on the other hand, might not have had the bite force to break Rex's neck, and the fragility of his spine could have been a hinderance, but he certainly had the combined neck strength and arm force to twist Rex's neck and kill him.)
All this to say, I would like to make two conclusions. For one, I believe that in a real fight, because Rex and Spino are so evenly matched, this fight should have gone on MUCH longer. If neither predator could overcome the other, it would eventually be environmental pressures that killed one of them (one dino trips, a landslide occurs, etc.). Second, I believe it was not Spino, but Rex, that was poorly executed in the fight scene. We saw no forceful charge on Rex's part, only a slow stride towards Spino. Like many from Team Rex have pointed out, Rex could very well have charged and butted into an opponent, or at least bit down in a more vulnerable spot, like the flank or underbelly. Thus, I do not believe that Rex's full glory was shown in Jurassic Park III, and I think everyone will agree with me on that.
Just voicing my opinion. Feel free to comment!
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:17 PM[img]http://images.wikia.com/jurassicpark/images/3/32/Spinosaurus_vs._T-Rex.jpg[/img]
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:25 PMWell said. I like your analogy, and I think that spinosaurs are much faster than they are given credit for. The Spino's are light and have long, strong legs, a bit like a dromeasaur. So maybe, a Spinosaurus, a huge as it may be, can run up to 30 mph in ashore burst.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:30 PMDo I agree 100 percent? No. Do I agree 99 percent? Yes. Good analogy with the spear and club. The way they had Rex attack in JP 3 was not good at all. I doubt if a T-rex was in a battle, it would spend it's whole time head-butting it's rival. There is a reason it had a 9 ton bite force and 13 inch teeth. Same goes for Spino. Why they did not have it use it's 10+ inch claws, I'll never know. In the end, it was probably Jack Horner wanted the Spino to win. I would like to say that, even though many Rex vs Spino fights have been done, none of them are "official." Spino fans complain that Rex has more victories, but think about it. Who has the more "set in stone" win? Spinosaurus. Just sayin ;)
I pretty much agree with ya Dinosaur Fanatic.
[img]http://www.gavinrymill.com/dinosaurs/jp3/RexSlapped2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://images.wikia.com/jurassicpark/images/0/0b/Article-1204459-009309D11000044C-141_468x319.jpg[/img]
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:39 PMOh, as far as Spino's speed goes, I think it would be fast in a straight line, but it's agility would be lacking. It could probably hit 25 miles per hour. I think it's sail would have made turning difficult though. T-rex was probably more agile because it simply did not have a sail to inhibit it's movement. Forgot to mention that.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:42 PMI guess the speed is better for Suchomimis or Baryonyx. T. rex was twice as heavy and 20 feet shorter, it was built like a tank, and tanks only have to mosey on down the road and everybody gets out of the way.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:43 PMPerhaps. I'm not saying Spino was not fast. It really could have been. But I doubt it was agile.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:44 PM@Deltadromeus15 -- I completely agree. I feel like Spino was really much faster than people give it credit for. You're right; those long legs had to be good for something!
@Rex Fan684 -- Glad you "pretty much" agree with me! The more I watch that fight scene, the more annoyed I am at how Jack Horner and others executed it. It should have been longer, Rex should have done some head-butting, charging, and made use of that 9 - ton bite force, and Spino should have additionally made better use of the claws.
Thanks both of you for your comments!
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:46 PM@Rex Fan -- I really don't think Spino's sail would have been that much of an inhibitor. Relative to the size of the whole dinosaur, the sail wasn't that big. I think it would have actually made it more streamlined.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:46 PMAnytime. It was a good re-assessment. Plus a good analogy. I like the pic you threw in there too.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:47 PMAlso, if you think about it, Spino would have to be agile to catch fast-moving marine life, fish, and crocs.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:48 PMI guess I feel that, because it seems pretty stiff to me, it would make turning at high speed harder. That's all.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:49 PMIt would have created more of a drag accually. It isn't really big, but if you are running on a windy day, the sail might act as a hinderence, or it might push it along, or it migh cool it off so it doesn't overheat while running.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:50 PMThe exact function of the sail is unknown. But that's a whole other discussion.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:53 PMTo both of these comments -- First, I doubt the sail would have caused much drag. It doesn't face perpendicular the dinosaur like a sail on a pirate-ship, it is parallel. I expect this would cause more aero.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:55 PMAlso, this could go both ways. What about Rex? He might have trouble making turns with that massive skull and body. That's like an 18-wheeler charging down a grate trying to make a quick turn, except heavier.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:55 PMEh, all depends on who you ask. It's like asking which is a better tooth design? Steak-Knife or Railroad-Spike? DON'T ANSWER THAT! Rhetorical question. Anyways, it's really impossible to say for sure.
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:57 PMIt does have a huge skull, and a huge tail counterbalance, and tiny arms, turning is not a huge theropod strong point. But raptors can do it just fine.
Rex Fan 684
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 3:59 PMWhat? Now this is about raptors? haha
"Men like me don't start the wars. We just die in them. We've always died in them, and we always will. We don't expect any praise for it, no parades. No one knows our names."
―Alpha-98
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 4:04 PMHaha, these debates always seem to turn to the raptors.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 4:05 PMAccually, the best kind of tooth design, besides serrated railroad spike, is conical. A slashing tooth makes a clean slice, while, if a conical tooth moves up or down through flesh, it will make an ugly, open, most likly to get infected wound, but it takes a lot of force to move it.
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 4:06 PMWhat can I say, they are the perfect killing machines.
Spinosaurus Rex
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 6:50 PMSpino's sail would have made it more agile for it to turn while running because of air resistance, so i disagree with your statement Rex Fan, no disreguards.
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 7:14 PMI agree. While the sail was small compared to the overall body size, any resistance from the sail would have made Spino more agile in turning.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
belladonna
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 7:22 PMin my opinion, VS fights are all up to chance. tiny creatures like parasites will kill anything from an ant to an elephant, and speaking of ants... a big swarm of army ants will strip many live healthy animals down to the bone. there are all sorts of shows and videos of animals acting out of character and attacking and winning fights with a much larger more vicious animal.
my female iguana is a vegetarian and my male tegu is a carnivore, my iguana is smaller but i bet she would kick the crap out of my tegu based on behavior i have observed from both of them. exactly why i NEVER let more than one reptile free-roam the house at the same time! but i know who the winner of any reptile fight would be in my house... my python and my boa. those monsters were made for crushing and eating anything that doesnt kill them first.
besides from the aquatic dinos i mentioned a LONG time ago that i wanted to see, i also would love to see prehistoric snakes. there is one that is so ridiculously massive, even most snake lovers would probably pee their pants if it came near them.
[img]http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/clockwork_carrion/MM/basket_caseicon.jpg[/img]
[url=http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fundraiser/old-lady-barley-needs-your-help/88737]BarleysFund[/url]
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 7:28 PMSo you're basically reaffirming that Rex and Spino both have their unique attack methods, unique features, and so forth that would aid their attacks, but because they are evenly matched, it's all up to chance. I completely agree.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
belladonna
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 8:11 PMyes, i totally agree it is all up to chance! especially since every species has had creatures that act way out of character for their kind. also depends on the fighting experience each animal had to endure growing up, if dinos had dominance and social ranks like many animals do. a dominant animal will tear a submissive one to shreds if it wants no matter what species it is.
i think there are SO many factors involved there would be no clear cut winner, most animals havent become extinct because of a similar sized animal in its territory (well, except for humans... we like to wipe animals off the planet).
[img]http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc465/clockwork_carrion/MM/basket_caseicon.jpg[/img]
[url=http://www.youcaring.com/medical-fundraiser/old-lady-barley-needs-your-help/88737]BarleysFund[/url]
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 10:32 PMI wish that T. rex and Spino are still living today. I have seen a Calvin and Hobbes in which Calvin solved the problem of world over population by letting a pack of raptors loose to eat whoever they want. It was an essay of course, but it was still and interesting, and very funny.
x_paden_x
MemberCompsognathusJul-09-2013 11:33 PMFBR was created for the purpose of showing this, But, its more of a luck draw then a determined accuracy... we will never know for sure, but we know how close we can coem to the real thing...
spino has size mass and claws
rex has neck jaws and feet
They're even odds, But if ive learned anything, youve gotta have an ace up your sleeve to win, theirs advantages to rex, yes, but spino has advantages too, as its size, its giant fore claws...
FBR was created off of these facts... evens and odds...
(You'll like FBR's ace for fight 4)
Life cannot be contained, it breaks walls, crashes through barriers sometimes painfully, but uh... Life uh, finds a way
Dinosaur.Fanatic
MemberCompsognathusJul-10-2013 8:46 AM@Deltadromeus -- That is SO funny that you bring that up! I have that Calvin and Hobbes comic book. The raptors come out and eat Susie on the school playground. Makes me laugh every time I read it!! Great solution - let dinosaurs loose to solve over-population.
@x_paden_x -- I appreciate FBR for this reason. However, (please don't take any offense to this), I feel that sometimes, not always, the fights to not fully examine [i]all[/i] the useful features of the fighter. However, mostly, you guys have done a great job. I will definitely be reading fight 4!
I feel like so many people on these forums always say that, yes, Spino was powerful, but in a fight, it was Rex that would have the advantage, and my point in opening this thread was to emphasize that this is certainly not true.
"Either way, you probably won't get off this island alive."
--Alan Grant
Deltadromeus
MemberCompsognathusJul-10-2013 9:48 AM@Dinosaur.Fanatic, I have the complete Calvin and Hobbes collection, and there is on many occasions where a T. rex runs through a city and eats people.
@x_Paden_x, we don't know for sure if T. rex had a huge bit force, and I think that Spino had a strong bite force too, like modern Crocodiles. My reason to back this up is Crocs have wider, shorter jaws, like Spino, not longer, thinner jaws, like an allogator. And plus, Spino was huge, a saltwater Crocodile is huge, I think they Spino would have a nasty bite force, but that's just me.